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Thread: Malaysian eBay buyer initiated fraudulent charge-back?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    2

    Unhappy Malaysian eBay buyer initiated fraudulent charge-back?

    Hey everyone, was delighted to find this website existed! -

    This whole debacle began back in November when I put an item for sale on eBay, I was a first-time seller (though with a 3 yr old account), and listed my item for $1,350 Canadian Dollars. I waited for awhile, had multiple people send me low-ball offers ranging from $50 - $250...

    Then, it seemed like I had finally found a legitimate buyer! His name was David, and he seemed to have a small amount of positive rep, so no biggie!
    He paid the amount ($1,450 CAD) in full, so I thanked him, and sent him a few messages telling him that my item came with free, tracked, first-class shipping (viewable online 24/7) - so he could monitor the arrival of the package anytime he wanted.

    All cool right? It seemed that way until he started replying sporadically, usually with broken English too.

    give email u send me item on mail, what email for you paypal i send?
    what email
    take money gback from ebay.. send email i send on paypal money just send it to me
    send now
    This left me extremely suspicious, I had a gut feeling he was scamming, but he had paid for the item nonetheless, and I had tracked shipping + seller protection, so what could go wrong?

    The next day I went to the post office, paid for shipping out of pocket, and sent the package on its way to Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.
    Every day I would check the status of the package, and occasionally ask him if he'd been watching, and to check the tracking # if he was ever wondering when it would arrive.
    It took some time (once the Malaysian post office received it, seems they aren't very efficient..) to finally arrive, but after a week of travel, it was successfully delivered!

    I sent him a message asking if he had received the package, and if there were any problems - no reply.
    Okay, fine, it says he has the package, and I have the money so he can ignore me for all I care.
    I decided to hold off spending any of the money however, in case he had some issues with the package - nope.
    Nearly 2 months passed without a word from him, so all seemed to be good; I deposited the money into my bank account, and decided to even spend a few hundred on stuff.

    Then, it happened - nearly 2 months after the item was successfully delivered, he initiated a charge-back claiming the item did not arrive.
    This was ridiculous, I thought; the shipping # says it arrived?
    From what I can gather, the package arrived at his house, he wasn't home to sign-off on it, so it went to the nearest post office where I can only assume they phoned him asking for him to pick up the parcel waiting for him - it seems he never did.

    So, I have to refute these claims that I never even shipped the item and actually scammed him (Really? It took him 2 months to notice he'd been supposedly scammed?)
    I had proof of shipping, seller protection, proof of me messaging him repeatedly with no reply - so I submitted my evidence to PayPal under their refuting process.

    Another month passed.

    I woke up to find the parcel (though somewhat beat-up) had arrived at my door with "RETURNED TO SENDER" marked on the front. I guess if an item sits in the post office for so long without the recipient ever picking it up... they mail it back.
    This seemed to perfectly coincide with PayPal + his credit card company finally reviewing my evidence. The tracked shipping # had been updated, after nearly 3 months of "Successfully delivered" to display "Returned to sender".

    The bank apparently ignored all my evidence, took one look at this, and decided he was right in performing a charge-back, since evidently it never left Canada to begin with, right? Nevermind the fact that when he actually performed the charge-back, it was still in Malaysia waiting for him to pick it up.

    So PayPal ruled in his favour, and I'm stuck having to pay the entire sum back. (keep in mind it was transferred to my bank account, so I simply have a negative balance now, worth -$1,4500)

    How should I proceed? He clearly was in the wrong here, and had some ulterior motive of scamming me, I would presume.
    Yes - to answer your questions, I do have the item once more, however after my trouble finding anyone on eBay that wasn't looking to scam me (great user-base) I don't intend to re-list it, or even interact with eBay/PayPal again.

    So the question is, how do I proceed? I have received a call from PayPal informing me I have 8 (now down to 6) days to repay the amount in full, or I will have to deal with an outside collection agency.

    Do I bring them to a small-claims court? Do I concede and pay the money back out-of-pocket? Any advice is appreciated, and apologies for the long-winded story.

    Cheers!
    Last edited by Draeren; 05-31-2016 at 08:54 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    2

    Default

    UPDATE: I have 3 days left until PayPal will no longer let me pay off the negative balance, and I'll need to pay a 3rd party collection agency instead.

    Do I have any alternative options?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    205

    Default

    Congratulations!

    You've won a free membership into the 'Screwed By EBay and PayPal Club'. It's a lifetime membership and there are never any dues.

    In all seriousness, you can't do anything. EBay and PayPal are the same company. Once you're screwed by one, you're screwed by both.

    The wisest thing you can do now is report any Credit or Debit Card you ever gave PayPal as LOST. Close any Checking Account you ever gave PayPal immediately. Prevent PayPal from recovering money from you. PayPal will automatically remove funds from your checking account after a certain numbers of days of trying to get you to make good on the negative balance. If the checking account they have on file is CLOSED, they cannot recover money from you.

    PayPal participated in a fraud against you and you don't have to let them get away with it. PayPal will then restrict or close your account until they get their money. PayPal will never go against the actions of a CC company, ever. If they did, eventually the CC companies won't allow you to use your CC at PayPal, just as they don't allow you to fund your online Poker account with a CC. Resign yourself that you will never again use PayPal. Tell any Collection Agency that you have never owed this money and that if they continue to attempt to collect a debt you are not liable for, you will sue them. Debt Collectors have a legal obligation to provide you proof that you owe the debt they are wanting to collect. Unlike the local electric or water company, a collection agency cannot provide this proof as they bought your debt for far less than face value. To make a debt collector go away: Inform them that you do not now or have never owed the debt and that if they continue to attempt to collect a debt you are not responsible for, you will consider it harassment and you will sue THEM. They'll sell your debt to the next dumbass agency. Lather, rinse, repeat. Eventually your debt becomes unsellable.

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