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Thread: Paypal forum selection clause

  1. #1
    SeanPLG Guest

    Default Paypal forum selection clause

    So we all may already be aware of the PayPal forum selection clause that states that users can only see them in Santa Clara County California, or Omaha Nebraska. I filed suit in smalls claims and they immediately followed with motion to dismiss and I followed up with opposition to their motion.

    The vibe I got from the court attorney that day was that she was really thinking about dismissing my case even though I proved that Paypal defrauded me. Luckily, no decision could be made that day because paypal screwed up their motion. It was clear that the lawyers for Paypal knows absolutely nothing about why I'm bring my case, and knows nothing about me besides that fact that I have a PayPal account.

    Doing all this work myself and putting up a fight almost gave me a crash course on how to act like a lawyer. I prepared a law memo and filed motions to the point where the court attorney wondered if I was indeed a lawyer. Anyways, back to where I was going with this. Paypal is registered to do business in my state as well as a business that is registered by the banking authority of my state to operate a "wire transfer" business. The registered business status states a date of 2002, and i've yet to find full details of the banking authority registration, but that's just a matter of seconds.

    I'm not sure if anyone who has attempted to bring suit against Paypal has brought those details up, as I'm sure that being registered to do business in a state would clearly mean that I can sue you in that state, or is it simply wishful thinking? My guess is that it cannot hurt that i include that in my argument. Why would a company register with the State as well as State Banking Dept. then turn around and say I can only sue them in CA or NE?

    Any thoughts about this would be great. I've been bouncing quite a lot of information in my head and all I need is a path to travel down were i see kind faces to help me along the way. Thanks for any insight anyone can give.

  2. #2

    Default

    DISPUTES WITH PAYPAL:

    14.1 Contact PayPal First. If a dispute arises between you and PayPal, our goal is to learn about and address your concerns and, if we are unable to do so to your satisfaction, to provide you with a neutral and cost effective means of resolving the dispute quickly. Disputes between you and PayPal regarding our Services may be reported to Customer Service online through the PayPal Help Center at any time, or by calling (402) 935-2050 from 6 AM to midnight Central Time. (It has already been established that PayPal's customer service is useless. Yet they want to use it as a first means. If that fails, which is almost always does, PayPal will provide a neutral and "cost effective" means of resolving the dispute quickly. But cost effective for who? When your funds are frozen and your account is limited, every day is important to you. Thank you PayPal for burying your telephone number in the last section of your user agreement!)

    14.2 Alternative Dispute Resolution. If you are unable to resolve your issue by working directly with us, PayPal will consider reasonable requests to resolve disputes through alternative dispute resolution procedures, such as mediation or binding arbitration as alternatives to litigation. Accordingly, you and PayPal agree to resolve any claim in accordance with this Agreement, or as otherwise agree to in writing. (PayPal is forcing you to consider options that ARE NOT IN YOUR BEST INTERESTS. You are agreeing to solve any dispute you have with PayPal IN ACCORDANCE WITH THIS AGREEMENT)

    14.3 Arbitration. For any claim (excluding claims for injunctive or other equitable relief) where the total amount of the award sought is less than $10,000.00 USD, the party requesting relief may elect to resolve the dispute in a cost effective manner through binding non-appearance-based arbitration. If a party elects arbitration, that party will initiate such arbitration through an established alternative dispute resolution ("ADR") provider mutually agreed upon by the parties. The ADR provider and the parties must comply with the following rules: a) the arbitration shall be conducted by telephone, online and/or be solely based on written submissions, the specific manner shall be chosen by the party initiating the arbitration; b) the arbitration shall not involve any personal appearance by the parties or witnesses unless otherwise mutually agreed by the parties; and c) any judgment on the award rendered by the arbitrator may be entered in any court of competent jurisdiction.(Earlier, PayPal forced you to come to California if you wanted arbitration. Since PayPal only offered arbitration as a solution -- you waived your rights to sue in court -- this option was not cost effective for PayPal users with legitimate complaints against PayPal. A California judge threw out the arbitration clause citing it was "unfair" and "unconsciousable" towards you, the PayPal customer. Yet, the arbitration clause is back, though modified. You now have the option to arbitrate over the telephone. YOU AGREE TO WHATEVER DECISION THE ARBITRATORS MAKE. AFter that, it is case closed. You do not know who these arbitrators are, you do not know if they are really neutral, and you do not know how much it costs. Is PayPal providing this service for free? This is how PayPal limits your options to dispute them. If they have frozen your account, with money in it, and they have denied you your money through normal claims, PayPal KNOWS few people will accept the "arbitration" option. This results in PayPal getting to keep millions of account holders funds in their possession)

    14.4 Law and Forum for Disputes. Except as otherwise agreed by the parties or as described in section 14.3 above, you agree that any claim or dispute you may have against PayPal must be resolved by a court located in Santa Clara County, California. You agree to submit to the personal jurisdiction of the courts located within Santa Clara County, California for the purpose of litigating all such claims or disputes. This Agreement shall be governed in all respects by the laws of the State of California, without regard to conflict of law provisions. (Even though Federal law applies because you have done a transaction with them over state lines, and even though you may not reside in or near Santa Clara County, California, YOU WAIVE YOUR RIGHTS TO SUE PAYPAL in your local jurisdiction! If you file a lawsuit against PayPal, their first defense will be to dismiss your lawsuit based on your agreement to this user agreement. The average PayPal user cannot file a lawsuit in the jurisdiction that PayPal wants you to. PayPal knows this. This clause is designed to discourage you from fighting for your money! This clause allows PayPal to keep millions of user accounts frozen -- along with the funds in them -- for PayPal's use!)

    14.5 Improperly Filed Litigation. All claims you bring against PayPal must be resolved in accordance with section 14 of this Agreement. All claims filed or brought contrary to section 14 shall be considered improperly filed a breach of this Agreement. Should you file a claim contrary to section 14, PayPal may recover attorneys' fees and costs (including in-house attorneys and paralegals) up to $1,000.00 USD, provided that PayPal has notified you in writing of the improperly filed claim, and you have failed to promptly withdraw the claim. (PayPal is trying to scare you here. They are saying that if you file a dispute with PayPal, it must be in accordance with this agreement. If you sue PayPal in your federal court jurisdiction or your local court jurisdiction, you will be responsible for all of PayPal's expenses! You are agreeing to this when you accept the user agreement)

    14.6 No Waiver. Our failure to act with respect to a breach by you or others does not waive our right to act with respect to subsequent or similar breaches. (PayPal is saying just because they do not penalize you now for breech of this section, they reserve the right to screw you later should they choose to)

    14.7 Limitations of Liability. IN NO EVENT SHALL WE, OUR PARENT, EMPLOYEES OR OUR SUPPLIERS BE LIABLE FOR LOST PROFITS OR ANY SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES ARISING OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH OUR WEB SITE, OUR SERVICE, OR THIS AGREEMENT (HOWEVER ARISING, INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE). Some states do not allow the exclusion or limitation of incidental or consequential damages so the above limitation or exclusion may not apply to you. OUR LIABILITY, AND THE LIABILITY OF OUR PARENT, EMPLOYEES AND SUPPLIERS, TO YOU OR ANY THIRD PARTIES IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCE IS LIMITED TO THE ACTUAL AMOUNT OF DIRECT DAMAGES. (If, for example, your money is lost due to an inside PayPal employee theft or scam, you are only entitled to damages of what was actually taken. You are not entitled to punitive damages. If something PayPal does causes you to loose money, causes your business to be destroyed or otherwise harms you beyond what you actually lost in money, PayPal will not reimburse you for it. You are agreeing to this)

    14.8 No Warranty. PAYPAL, OUR PARENT, EMPLOYEES AND OUR SUPPLIERS PROVIDE OUR SERVICES "AS IS" AND WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY OR CONDITION, EXPRESS, IMPLIED OR STATUTORY. PAYPAL, OUR PARENT, EMPLOYEES AND OUR SUPPLIERS SPECIFICALLY DISCLAIM ANY IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF TITLE, MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NON-INFRINGEMENT. PayPal does not have any control over the products or services that are paid for with our Service and PayPal cannot ensure that a buyer or a seller you are dealing with will actually complete the transaction. PayPal does not guarantee continuous, uninterrupted or secure access to our Service, and operation of our site may be interfered with by numerous factors outside of our control. PayPal will make reasonable efforts to ensure that requests for electronic debits and credits involving bank accounts, credit cards, and check issuances are processed in a timely manner but PayPal makes no representations or warranties regarding the amount of time needed to complete processing because our Service is dependent upon many factors outside of our control, such as delays in the banking system or the U.S. or international mail service. Some states do not allow the disclaimer of implied warranties, so the foregoing disclaimers may not apply to you. This paragraph gives you specific legal rights and you may also have other legal rights that vary from state to state. (PayPal claims to have NO CONTROL over the products or services paid for using this service. This is a lie. Checkout their restricted items list just for starters. Paypal cannot guarantee uninterrupted access to their service! Of course not, how would they be able to freeze your account anytime they want? PayPal is claiming that they cannot guarantee "secure access" to their service!)


    14.9 Indemnification. You agree to defend, indemnify and hold PayPal, its parent, officers, directors and employees harmless from any claim or demand (including attorneys' fees) made or incurred by any third party due to or arising out of your breach of this Agreement and/or your use of the Services. (You are agreeing to waive more of your rights away!)

  3. #3

    Default

    tough one because by signing the user agreement you agreed to those terms and conditions and paypal has a lot of things that will be in their favor in that user agreement.

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