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Thread: PayPal to FINE users starting Sept 24th
<UnknownUser>
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 PayPal to FINE users starting Sept 24th
Sent: 08-26-2005 21:46
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PaypalSucks, PayPal is DEFINATELY ignorant...and THEY ARE affiliated with eBay! I had one item up for bid (first time to sell) with 100% positive feedback (from buying from others) and PayPal said I am \"a high risk customer,\" limited my account and then said that we will now \"part our ways from one another.\" PayPal said that \"a buyer sent in a complaint against me!\" Yah, probably one of those shady sellers who were intimidated by me...thought I would take their sales! They did this of course while my one and only bid was up, and after I had PAID for everything(service). So they pretty much take the customers money and then cut us off!! So tell me who is doing the scam here?! In addition to this, they say they will hold onto my money in my paypal account for 180 days. It won\'t be long until PayPal and/or eBay is going down. There is too much shady crap going on with the company itself, as well as with some buyers/sellers. I am an honest person (buyer/seller)....who was scammed by a seller once in the past. I paid for an item which I never received! What about that seller, was he/she not \"high risk?!\" What about that guy(eBay \"seller\") who was on the news last night who scammed SEVERAl people saying he was selling GOLD bars! The buyers said that it took eBay (WHO IS AFFILIATED WITH PaYpAL)forever to kick him out! You wanna know why, because eBay was making $$$$ off this piece of crap...selling gold to about 3+ customers at $12,000 each!!! eBay is just as guilty as the \"seller\" was. You think they give a crap? Hell no, they just want your damn money!!! What goes around, comes around. Surely the Government is aware of this crap....and something needs to be done. I think it\'s about time someone sews eBay/PayPal! I look forward to the day they get shut down!

 




<Pen>
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 PayPal to FINE users starting Sept 24th
Sent: 08-26-2005 14:48
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<Pen>,
actually, I've just found .... http://paypalsucks.com/options.shtml , but still if there are anymore.

 




<Pen>
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From: N/A
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 PayPal to FINE users starting Sept 24th
Sent: 08-26-2005 14:21
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Paypal sure does Sucks,
Hi All,
Could somebody give me a good alternative to PayPal, as i have grown to hate it. IPN(instant payment notification) is a must.

Thanks for reading.

 




bbkings
Active User

From: N/A
Messages: 60
 PayPal to FINE users starting Sept 24th
Sent: 01-17-2005 20:58
  Reply



SillyGirl has hit it on the head with her reply. Paypal is attempting to cover their butt with the credit card companies. If chargebacks get too high under any one merchant account, the credit card companies threaten to either 1) raise interchange fees for all purchases or 2) cancel the merchant account altogether. Since Paypal can't afford #1 and would have no business with #2, they have little choice than to highly discourage activity that drives their chargeback rates up.

Insofar as whether Paypal can assess a fine to users who violate their new policy, I would find that highly unlikely. Although if they are assessed higher fees or lose their merchant account, they would have damages and may be capable of using this to justify the fines. I would expect that they would be within their rights to cancel the offender's account but should NOT have any rights to any of the monies held in the offender's account.

 




<AngryGerman>
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 PayPal to FINE users starting Sept 24th
Sent: 01-16-2005 10:58
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Compared to tattooing your butt where you KNOW it will hurt, PP \"surpises\" its customers, holds back money and put fines on completely bogus grounds only people in PP understand.
Illegal bogus grounds by the way!

I composed several pictures of the natural naked human body in my fine arts course and some dolt at PP is allowed to judge if it\'s really art or smut, worth a fine if I try to sell it?
It\'s simply not PPs business if my pictures end up in an art collection or a perv costumer prefers to jerk off on them.

PP ISN\'T ALLOWED TO JUDGE THAT! IT\'S A DAMN MONEY INSTITUTE NOT A GRAND COURT! F*CK THE MONEY ISSUE!

 




<SillyGirl>
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 PayPal to FINE users starting Sept 24th
Sent: 01-05-2005 15:08
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PaypalSucks,

I work in the adult industry, and several things come to mind with this thread.

1. Visa/MC and Amex have defined porn, amex by disallowing most sites that sell adult content, Visa/MC by requiring any merchant or third party processor to pay huge up front fees to use their services to sell adult content. THEY determine what is adult content. As much as I hate paypal, when they stopped allowing adult services to use their service, it was to cover their own butts, plain and simple. Stormpay used to take adult merchants-they don't any more for the same reason. They didn't want to pay the fees involved to be able to process cards for these sort of transactions.

2. It is all about the money with Visa/MC. The phone sex industry, my personal neck of the woods, is a BILLION dollar industry-with a HUGE chargeback rate. Most chargebacks are not done because of bad service, but because the wife/girlfriend found out, or because in his lusty mood, John Q. PUblic didn't realize how much he was spending and regretted it the next morning.

3. Because neither phone sex nor membership sites have signed credit card statements like you get at Macy's and Target, it's very difficult to prove that the card holder was the one who made the purchase, should he dispute it. In my industry, we have phone records that show the phone number matches the one for the billing address of the card, but Visa/MC still takes the side of the card holder who is disputing the charge-it could, in theory, have been a son, neighbor, pool boy.

4. Bad service DOES happen. However, the larger percentage of charge backs in the adult industry are fraudulent. I am an active participant in lawsuits against two clients who repeatedly use these types of services and then charge back. We probably won't see a dime. When a guy has called 37 different services, and charged back every call with every service, he's committing fraud. But it's difficult to prove that fraud was his intent. So the credit card companies have the expense of dealing with chargebacks, which has made it necessary for them to define pornography, and make their rules accordingly.

Paypal made the choice not to accept adult merchants, although they didn't have much of an option. They didn't define porn-Visa/MC did that for them. How they dealt with the accounts that were accepting paypal for adult services when they changed their rules is another matter altogether.

Just a bit of education on how the adult thing works.

 




<Laurel>
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From: N/A
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 PayPal to FINE users starting Sept 24th
Sent: 01-04-2005 09:39
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Yes, Paypal has the right to do business as they choose now, but due to their near monopolistic nature, they should be heavily regulated and restricted to prevent them from infringing upon the rights of others. I think there is an arguement to be made for Paypal needing regulation similar to a bank or utility. They market themselves as offering services similar to a bank (credit cards, depository for money, debit cards, etc.) and give you the arguably false and contradictory (to their ToS) sense that they will treat your money as a bank does. But the fact that they can fine you or shut down your account and take your money for actions which break no law, but only their ToS (Not only are the ToS not the ToS I agreed to abide by when signing up for my account, but I was never notified of the $500 fine change). When my bank or my credit card change their terms, they send a notice, they are required by law to send me written notification within a certain period BEFORE the change takes effect. Given that doing business with a company like Ebay is increasingly difficult withOUT a Paypal account and given the scope and size of Ebay as a public marketplace, arbitrary denial of access to these two services (and it IS aribitrary, subject to the judgement of individuals and not based on say illegal behavior but some sort of Paypal imposed "moral code") is not in the public interest and goes against the free market principles on which this country is founded. Quite frankly, I think there is a strong arguement for both Paypal and Ebay to be regulated heavily by the goverment as utilities, with denial of services based strictly on the federal laws governing legal transactions.

In doing so, goverment could force both entities to actively investigate and pursue, perhaps with the help of government, fraudulent buyers and sellers and offer greater protection to victims of such fraud instead of treating victims like parties to the crime. In addition, the goverment could limit the power of both Ebay and Paypal to deny service to anyone conducting LEGAL business.

The difference between Paypal and the restaurant senario quoted for the right to deny service example is that the restaurant can't take your wallet as they kick you out the door and you can still go down the road to the next restaurant and order dinner. This isn't the case with Paypal and therefore, due to its near monopolistic nature, it should NOT be free to conduct business in "their own way." This is not my opinion, this is the standard practice for such types of business in this country.

 




RobertD
Big BOSS

From: Detroit, MI
Messages: 277
 PayPal to FINE users starting Sept 24th
Sent: 12-16-2004 22:56
  Reply



<Kathy>,

Welcome to the "CLUB"... PayPal never gave me a valid reasons either... And the reasons they did give me, they turned right around and said "no, that's not the problem"... Still can't get a straight answer...

 




<Kathy>
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 PayPal to FINE users starting Sept 24th
Sent: 12-16-2004 22:11
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donttakepaypal,

So you are saying that just cause I have the word "CLUB" in my domain, I'm the webmaster of a porn site...hmm interesting. Paypal failed to point out exactly where I violated their terms. That's what upsets me the most

 




xppman
Big BOSS

From: Troll Buster
Messages: 911
 PayPal to FINE users starting Sept 24th
Sent: 12-08-2004 09:28
  Reply



PaypalSucks,
Very interesting topic indeed. As Admin says. You go PayPal.
Between feebay, payfraud and the fascists out there who want to continue to regulate, legislate and assimilate all of us into some sort of mindless robots with a one size fits all mentality. It really is looking more and more like the book 1984 is non fiction any more.

 




cardomania
New User

From: world
Messages: 1
 PayPal to FINE users starting Sept 24th
Sent: 12-05-2004 21:15
  Reply



PaypalSucks,
track2gen for 30 ccs info

 




Stan_Laurel
New User

From: N/A
Messages: 1
 PayPal to FINE users starting Sept 24th
Sent: 12-03-2004 14:22
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PaypalSucks, So what some things should not have a market. But as for paypal, I got sold faulty goods and paypal does suck as they did nothing to help me. The man got his money & I am stuck with the faulty goods. I wish I could get the scumbags address. It's about time I used my purple belt Karate.

 




PaypalSucks
Administrator

From: N/A
Messages: 2076
 PayPal to FINE users starting Sept 24th
Sent: 12-02-2004 15:36
  Reply



Quote:
PaypalSucks, What about those that aren't selling porn? I am in web hosting, I offered an "adult hosting package"- no pictures, no links, just text "adult hosting package". Guess what? Violation! An empty space is what I was selling!! Guess you can't sell film either and say you can make "adult pictures" with it....They are so stupid, good riddance to PayPal.
Good points.

 




elle1961
New User

From: N/A
Messages: 1
 PayPal to FINE users starting Sept 24th
Sent: 12-02-2004 14:30
  Reply



PaypalSucks, What about those that aren't selling porn? I am in web hosting, I offered an "adult hosting package"- no pictures, no links, just text "adult hosting package". Guess what? Violation! An empty space is what I was selling!! Guess you can't sell film either and say you can make "adult pictures" with it....They are so stupid, good riddance to PayPal.

 




<Yalson.>
Not Registered

From: N/A
Messages: N/A
 PayPal to FINE users starting Sept 24th
Sent: 11-30-2004 14:10
  Reply



cbeck82,

From reading the list of prohibited items, I'm surprised there is anything left.

 




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