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Thread: Details on the Proposed Settlement of the class action lawsuit
<ruddick83>
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From: N/A
Messages: N/A
 Details on the Proposed Settlement of the class action lawsuit
Sent: 07-30-2004 01:10
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Hello, I signed up for paypal roughly 2 years ago so i am well within the limits of the time frame. Now the situation i am facing is as fallows, i sold some merchandise via paypal and got my money but shortly after had many reversals filed against me some were chargebacks by cc companies, so they say, so i had already withdrew the money into my acct and took it out of the bank for rent etc. and then paypal preceded to attempt to withdraw funds from my accct via e-checks i beleive and i kept gettting overdraft charges and bounced check charges because of this, i was not able to cover all of the charges the made and lost my bank acct because of this, now i cant open a checking acct again becuase of this mess they caused. Any ideas on what form i should file and what kind of damages i should request? Help will be greatly appreciated.

 




PaypalSucks
Administrator

From: N/A
Messages: 2076
 Details on the Proposed Settlement of the class action lawsuit
Sent: 07-30-2004 01:07
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Quote:
PaypalSucks,
Hi,

Congratulations!

Thanks

Quote:

I would like the question pertaining to date of incident answered as well. I joined Paypal in 1999 and was scammed in April 04 (or at least that's when Paypal initiated the chargeback) - am I a 'statutory damage fund claimant', 'short form' or 'long form' claimant. I believe I'm a long form claimant but the date is prior to Feb. 1 2004 and I was scammed after that.


For the 3rd time today, it's the date you joined that makes you a member of the class.
Quote:

I have all the paper work regarding the fraudulent chargeback as well as names of Paypal employees and times I spoke with them, letters from the CA Better Business Bureau regarding my complaint, the paperwork associated with the Internet Fraud Commission etc. etc.

I signed up with the class action lawsuits on www.paypalsucks.com in April 04 as well as with a class action lawsuit with bigclassaction.com. Because I signed up online with Girard Gibbs & De Bartolomeo will they still have my information or should I supply them with this paperwork as well.

I don't want to fill out the wrong form. Please advise.

I feel strange about filling it out on Paypal's website (www.paypal.com/settlement/) Should I be cautious?



The site is actually an independent site, run by a company the lawyers hired.

As to "what form" based on what you said, it's either short or long. If your loss is under $50, then it's the short form. If your loss is over $50 then it's the long form.

 




PaypalSucks
Administrator

From: N/A
Messages: 2076
 Details on the Proposed Settlement of the class action lawsuit
Sent: 07-30-2004 01:01
  Reply



Quote:
It makes sense if you wish to sue them on your own.

Anyone thinking about going that? Anyone knows of any other lawsuits going on?

I was wondering if it would make sense to sue them on my own with some firm in San Jose....Any thoughts?

3 thoughts

1. There was a case started by Jacoby and Meyers (sp?). I have no idea what happened to it. Seems to disappear.

2. The problem with the statutory claim is that it's capped on a class action lawsuit to $500,000. And if you take it on an individual basis, it's capped at $100 to $1000. Here is the actual text:

Quote:

A financial institution may also be liable for civil damages if it fails to comply with the EFTA. The
civil liability provisions are found in §915. The damages an institution would have to pay in a successful individual action are actual damages and statutory damages between $100 and $1,000, as
determined by the court. In a successful class action suit, the institution would have to pay actual
damages and statutory damages up to the lesser of $500,000 or 1% of the institution's net worth. In
both successful individual and class actions, court costs and a reasonable attorney's fee would be recovered by the consumer.

Now, if 100,000 people decide to take this on their own, each with their own attorney, and each win the min. amount of $100, then that's $10,000,000 plus all those attorney fees.

And that is possible ONLY if we can get 100,000 people to agree to do this and find 100,000 lawyers willing to take the cases. In my not so humble opinion, PayPal is guilty as sin on the EFTA. Peter Thiel was quoted (and it's on video tape someplace) that they deleted "hundreds of thousands" of emails. That would probably be viewed as a violation right there. They hung up on me 3 times and countless others. They hid their phone number on purpose and it was reported across the land dozens of times. All of those are violations of the EFTA.

But we know that isn't likely to happen. How many people are going to go thru that for $100 (or at best $1000?) How many attorneys? However, the threat that it could happen is probably what caused PayPal to agree to $1,000,000 on the EFTA "statutory claim" fund.

3. Of course any individual can get their own lawyer and sue for whatever they think they can get and on any grounds they think they might have. But I'll tell you all something based on what I've learned during the past 3 years of doing this site: Most of the claims people THINK they have, are useless in a court of law. Firstly because it's not what you know, but what you can prove. Secondly because a lot of people think is the law, is not in fact the law.

Please don't misunderstand me. It's my opinion now and has always been that PayPal is the one that accepts the credit card, not me. And that if PayPal accepts that card, THEY are the ones on the hook for whatever happens. But this is not the law. And I'll tell you why: When I had a merchant account my brother asked me to run a guys card because his machine was messed up. So I took the info over the phone and ran it thru. Come to find out, it was stolen. Not only was I responsible for the money but I got a stern letter from the bank telling me that what I did was in violation of their agreement and that I could have been fined. (I don't recall the amount.) Also when PayPal first started, I saw the potential and called my bank. I told them what PayPal was doing and I said I wanted to start my own business doing such. They told me PayPal was an "aggregator" and that as such it required a special agreement with Visa/MC and that it was a very risky business because I would be responsible for the cards taken.

Why isn't something being done about that now? Because it's up to Visa and/or Mastercard to do it, since they are the ones who have the agreement with PayPal and they are making too much money.

 




ilfar
New User

From: NZ
Messages: 5
 Details on the Proposed Settlement of the class action lawsuit
Sent: 07-30-2004 00:38
  Reply



PaypalSucks,

Add a third reason - I don't see how someone who has had no problems with Paypal can take money that's supposed to go to people who DO have problems and still sleep at night. I'm willing to bet most of the money will go to freeloaders who have no reason to get a payout at all. By using an opt-in rather than an opt-out system, they'd have had a better chance to get the money where it's supposed to go.

I'm ready to spend money to oppose this class action if there's a way I can, purely because it's trying to make me spend money to say I want no part of it.

 




PaypalSucks
Administrator

From: N/A
Messages: 2076
 Details on the Proposed Settlement of the class action lawsuit
Sent: 07-30-2004 00:32
  Reply



Quote:
PaypalSucks,

what about those of us who's paypal accout wall.?as frozen , because paypal said we owed them money .
does this help us at

I'm not sure I understand your question due to the typo, because if they account wasn't frozen, then how can paypal say you owe them money? But regardless, it basically goes like this: If you had any problem with paypal (NOT ebay, NOT half) and were not happy with the result, you can put in for the short form or the statutory form. If you put in for the statutory form, you will get $1,000,000 divided by the total number of people who put in a form.

If you put in a short form, you will get $50 provided your account was not linked to any fraudulent activity. The determination will be by the mediator. It's my opinion, reading between the lines that if your IP or email was connected to a ring of criminals or stolen credit cards, etc. you won't get your money. If on the other hand it was a "good faith" disagreement, ie, you didn't intend to defraud anyone, seller didn't ship, but you waited too long to put in a claim, hacker got your account, etc, then you will get your $50.

However, if there are too many people putting in claims and they exhaust the funds, then the amount will be prorated downward.

BUT, if there are a huge number of claims, well beyond what the lawyers (on both sides) expect, then they can go back and try to renogotiate a new amount. I could not get a definitive answer on this issue. Like "Well how much over the $2,000,000?" I asked, "By a excessive amount" I think was the answer. Does that mean $4,000,000 in claims? Probably not. If they get $4,000,000 in claims on the short form, then everyone will get $25 instead of $50. What if it's $10,000,000 in claims? Well then, that's probably "excessive enough" and they will have to do some backpedaling. What about $4,000,0001 to $9,999,999? That would probably be up to the judge and THAT I think we can influence by our letters to the court. (Which we are allowed to do.)


You have to understand, PayPal doesn't believe there will be that many claims. By their on statements, (page 15 of the Settlement Agreement http://paypalsucks.com/files/PayPalSettlementAgreement.pdf ) "only" 900,000 accounts were frozen. As far as PayPal is concerned, no one else is going to put in a claim outside those 900,000, and even then, only a very small number of those 900,000 will be miffed enough to put in a claim. They also believe that most of those are "invalid" claims. That's paypals theory. (Me reading between the lines.)

I believe PayPal thinks the other 39,100,000 "members" of paypal love them so much, they are all going to "opt out" or just take the statutory claim.

 




PaypalSucks
Administrator

From: N/A
Messages: 2076
 Details on the Proposed Settlement of the class action lawsuit
Sent: 07-30-2004 00:22
  Reply



Quote:
So why would you opt out ... you would rather not have to opt out and do nothing and still get a small ammount of money.. makse no sense to 'opt-out'
There are 2 reasons people "opt out."

The first is that they side with PayPal on this issue and want nothing to do with those who have a beef.

The 2nd is that if you do not opt out, then you cannot come back and later sue paypal. If you think you might ever want to sue them on your own, then you need to opt out now.

 




<Sky>
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 Details on the Proposed Settlement of the class action lawsuit
Sent: 07-30-2004 00:18
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Yeah... that link worked like half the time yesterday, very unstable. Today it doesn\'t work at all. I think more and more people got the email and are trying to get on the bandwagon. The hosting server is probably not that good lol, too much bandwidth.

 




Jaden_Kale
New User

From: The Sunfish Capital of WI
Messages: 4
 Details on the Proposed Settlement of the class action lawsuit
Sent: 07-29-2004 22:50
  Reply



Quote:
Not surprisingly, the link PayPal provides to online claim forms, <https://www.paypal.com/settlement>
redirects to <http://www.settlement4onlinepayments.com/>
which results in "The page cannot be displayed".

This is just another of many examples why PayPal Sucks!

Well, yeah it did the same to me but there is a link that states: If your screen doesn't forward you to the appropriate site in 10 seconds, click HERE. If you click that link, it will take you to the main version of the same site. I think the other was just bogged down or the server dropped the ball. Try it again and click the forwarding link. It should get you where you want to go.

 




ilfar
New User

From: NZ
Messages: 5
 Details on the Proposed Settlement of the class action lawsuit
Sent: 07-29-2004 21:23
  Reply



<Don>,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that website run independently of Paypal by whoever's running the lawsuit? And I'd guess it's down because half a ton of users are all greedily trying to get their meathooks in a few more dollars, which makes it rather hard for those with actual greivances to get anywhere. Congratulations, you're now witnessing an inadvertant DoS. Or they've taken the site down for a while...

If Paypal didn't provide the redirect link, then that email that got sent would just seem like another hoax email and get deleted. I very nearly just deleted it until I saw that it was redirecting from the actual Paypal site.

So to repeat, the site you're all complaining about isn't Paypal's, it's made by the glorious people out to get you your money back. Still want to **** and moan about it, or do you suddenly feel more inclined to cut them a little slack :P

 




<Dave Yeudall>
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From: N/A
Messages: N/A
 Details on the Proposed Settlement of the class action lawsuit
Sent: 07-29-2004 21:14
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My experiences with Paypal have been a nightmare. Now they send me an email notifying me of the classaction lawsuit and the claim form link takes me to www.perfectnav.com....a searchengine. This is par for the course when dealing with Paypal. Can anyone help me out with getting the claim forms? TIA

 




edle
New User

From: Vancouver BC
Messages: 8
 Details on the Proposed Settlement of the class action lawsuit
Sent: 07-29-2004 20:51
  Reply



PaypalSucks,
Hi,

Congratulations!

I would like the question pertaining to date of incident answered as well. I joined Paypal in 1999 and was scammed in April 04 (or at least that's when Paypal initiated the chargeback) - am I a 'statutory damage fund claimant', 'short form' or 'long form' claimant. I believe I'm a long form claimant but the date is prior to Feb. 1 2004 and I was scammed after that.

I have all the paper work regarding the fraudulent chargeback as well as names of Paypal employees and times I spoke with them, letters from the CA Better Business Bureau regarding my complaint, the paperwork associated with the Internet Fraud Commission etc. etc.

I signed up with the class action lawsuits on www.paypalsucks.com in April 04 as well as with a class action lawsuit with bigclassaction.com. Because I signed up online with Girard Gibbs & De Bartolomeo will they still have my information or should I supply them with this paperwork as well.

I don't want to fill out the wrong form. Please advise.

I feel strange about filling it out on Paypal's website (www.paypal.com/settlement/) Should I be cautious?

Thanks,
Stacy (edle)

BTW The fraudster told me VISA instructed her she was entitled to keep the merchandise and the money. VISA class action lawsuit next?

 




<AV>
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From: N/A
Messages: N/A
 Details on the Proposed Settlement of the class action lawsuit
Sent: 07-29-2004 20:47
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Quote:
So why would you opt out ... you would rather not have to opt out and do nothing and still get a small ammount of money.. makse no sense to 'opt-out'
It makes sense if you wish to sue them on your own.

Anyone thinking about going that? Anyone knows of any other lawsuits going on?

I was wondering if it would make sense to sue them on my own with some firm in San Jose....Any thoughts?

 




<rita>
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From: N/A
Messages: N/A
 Details on the Proposed Settlement of the class action lawsuit
Sent: 07-29-2004 20:36
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PaypalSucks,

what about those of us who's paypal accout wall.?as frozen , because paypal said we owed them money .
does this help us at

 




<Fiah>
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From: N/A
Messages: N/A
 Details on the Proposed Settlement of the class action lawsuit
Sent: 07-29-2004 19:42
  Reply



So why would you opt out ... you would rather not have to opt out and do nothing and still get a small ammount of money.. makse no sense to 'opt-out'

 




PaypalSucks
Administrator

From: N/A
Messages: 2076
 Details on the Proposed Settlement of the class action lawsuit
Sent: 07-29-2004 19:38
  Reply



Quote:
PaypalSucks, I can't seem to get on the website you've provided. I've had a scam to where paypal said that I'd have to challenge it on my credit card because they couldn't do anything... would that be considered a good lawsuit? I did challenge it on my credit card and got my money back, but Paypal did nothing to help. Anyway, I typed: http://www.settlement4onlinepayments.com/ and it came up as an error page and gave me the option to refresh the page, but nothing... Is there another website I can go to? Please email me if you have any information.

Thanks,

Don

To me, if you got your money back, then there is no need for a claim. However, if your paypal account is now in the negative because of it, then yes you can put in a clain, and then pay the money back to paypal to bring your account into good standing again. That is, if you want to use them ever again. :-)

PS. Regarding the claims website.... they did not accurately anticipate the amount of traffic (in my opinion) thus they now have to suffer a bit. You have till October to put in your claims, so you might want to just wait a week or so and try again.

 




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