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Thread: HELP URGENT! I have a HUGE Negative Balance what will happen??
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From: N/A
Messages: N/A
 HELP URGENT! I have a HUGE Negative Balance what will happen??
Sent: 01-27-2008 15:36
  Reply



sneezy,

PayPal will never take you to court because they dont have any proof. They rely on stupid people into giving money to them to settle claims that are illegal. They figure if they can scare people into believing anything they will do it. They are scum bags. They always favor the buyer and always screw over sellers.

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sneezy
Message Maniac

From: N/A
Messages: 120
 HELP URGENT! I have a HUGE Negative Balance what will happen??
Sent: 01-24-2008 22:20
  Reply



firefly5,

If you are contacted by NCO then ask for "proof of debt" and state that they are not to contact you again until proof has been supplied.

Problem solved. I have never heard of NCO or Paypal trying to take anyone to court (unless it has been a clear case of fraud) or notifying a credit reporting agency after these steps have been taken.

 




Sarentack
Active User

From: N/A
Messages: 81
 HELP URGENT! I have a HUGE Negative Balance what will happen??
Sent: 01-20-2008 17:00
  Reply



firefly5, not sure, quite frankly I think they scared you might get good defense lawyer and counter sue and they be the ones in hot water.

So No probably not, Paypal commits so much illegal activity I dont think they want it in court.

 




lawsuits
Moderator

From: N/A
Messages: 558
 HELP URGENT! I have a HUGE Negative Balance what will happen??
Sent: 01-19-2008 14:18
  Reply



Quote:
firefly5,

Pardon me for saying so, but at first glance it really does sound like you aren't really all that legit.

Why do I say that?

If you have enough complaints that you have $6,000 negative, well, that's a lot. Since your item is electronic, if your customers claimed they didn't receive it, you'd simply have to resend it to them - which wouldn't cost you anything (the item is intangible). If, on the other hand, your buyers are claiming that you misrepresented the item in some way, then I would have to ask you why so many of your buyers are making this claim. It would seem that you likely DID misrepresent your item somehow.

Again, pardon me for going out on a limb, especially on this site of all places, but on the surface, it would appear that you are probably a less than completely honest seller, and thereby a huge part of the reason that the rest of us have problems with PayPal... because they're hyperactive in their approach to deterring fraud.

Face it, if you sent people what you told them you were sending them, you wouldn't have $6,000 in charge backs... one or two, maybe... but not as many as you have.

But, then again, what do I know?

This makes a lot of sense. In my prior post, I informed you that it depended on whether you are an innocent party.

 




lawsuits
Moderator

From: N/A
Messages: 558
 HELP URGENT! I have a HUGE Negative Balance what will happen??
Sent: 01-19-2008 14:11
  Reply



Here is what you do


First, my understanding of your use of "electronic" means downloadable files. Because you also used the word "intangible". In addition, the buyer will NOT be entitled to buyer protection if they get a charge back approved. A charge back is separate from buyer protection.

Second, you must understand that Paypal decision to refund the money to the buyers was due to Paypal's desire to protect themselves from a charge back that they might have to pay out of their own pocket, which I'm assuming they have done since you have a negative balance and now they are holding you liable for. You need to know this...Paypal tends to NOT conduct investigations or fight the charge backs, which is illegal. This is the key to defending yourself. I'll explain what you should do to beat Paypal (Do not be afraid of them. If you did nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear. They are trying to bully you)...



TAKE THESE STEPS:

1) Write that letter to IC. By law they must NOT contact you again after that letter.

2) Write a letter to Paypal and tell them that they are instructed to stop all collection attempts against you and that you did nothing wrong (Personally, I would include a statement that I would sue them if they did not stop). Provide them a statement explaining that you did nothing wrong. Get a record from your Internet database showing all the downloads of your product. Depending on your host, they should also have a record of all the IP addresses that downloaded your product. Send that record to Paypal to prove deliver.

3) If Paypal's collection agency or Paypal sues you, you should file a motion to dismiss based on the fact that you don't owe them anything. Inform the Judge that Paypal has been negligent in failing to properly investigate the case and if they did properly investigate the matter, Paypal would have uncovered that the product was delivered to the buyers. If you don't have a record of your Internet database proving the products were downloaded by your buyers then SUBPOENA all the buyers who stated that they never got your product. If these witnesses fail to appear in court, it could win you the case because Paypal may not have a leg to stand on. Also, serve Paypal with a Notice to Produce the result of any investigation they conducted and serve them with an Interrogatory that asks them specific details of how they conducted the investigation and the names of the people who conducted the investigation. I would also SUBPOENA them to appear in court, if necessary. The idea here is that you hit Paypal with requests to prove that they investigated the matter and what the results were.

This is not difficult to do. Most courts have a Pro Se office to help you, or you can request to have an attorney assigned to you if you don't have the money.

4) If Paypal sues you in a court where you can get punitive damages, you should hit them with a counterclaim in your answer and a motion to dismiss. Tell the Judge that this is habitual behavior by Paypal. Paypal rarely conducts investigations and simply refunds buyers' money. Tell the Judge that you will prove that Paypal has NOT conducted a proper investigation. Ask that he punish them with punitive damages because their conduct was intentional, malicious and designed only to benefit them.

I suggest you contact the legal aid society and speak to an attorney about the above. There are some more details needed; but they are not difficult. Go to the Pro Se office of your court.

 




DjMikeWatt
New User

From: New York
Messages: 15
 HELP URGENT! I have a HUGE Negative Balance what will happen??
Sent: 01-19-2008 03:29
  Reply



compmend,

Possibly. I considered several factors in my assessment of the post (and the poster), not the least of which was the grammar used in the post. However, you are correct - any number of things could have taken place here. It seems to me, though, that this is exactly why eBay has the systems in place that it does. A group of scammers aren't likely to have a very high feedback rating, since feedback numbers are based on unique positives. If they did, it would almost certainly be due to mass buying expeditions of inexpensive items. All these factors are checkable before the transaction.

I recently sold a $250 gift card to Del Frisco's restaurant. Guess what - I had no problems. My buyer had a feedback rating high enough that I was confident entering into the transaction.

I still lean towards my initial stance, though. In the scenario that you presented, for example, the gift card retailer would be able to to disclose where and to whom the items bought with it were shipped (in an investigation). I'm sure it wouldn't take all that much stealth for a police agency to discern who killed Col. Mustard in the kitchen and with what.

PS... GOOGLE CHECKOUT!! Hopefully Google (and Google Checkout) will be able to put some real competition in Paypal's game... they've overtaken everything else they've touched...)

 




compmend
New User

From: Central FL
Messages: 3
 HELP URGENT! I have a HUGE Negative Balance what will happen??
Sent: 01-15-2008 18:18
  Reply



DJMikeWatt, It would be an easy scam for a group of people to buy items such as gift cards, buy items with the gift cards to resell online, request the money that they paid for the gift card under the guise that they never received the item or card was empty. This could even be done to a single seller who has multiple items. I cannot tell you how many phishing emails I have gotten myself since I started selling on Ebay. There are whole gangs of people whose sole source of income is scamming other people online. To assume that the seller was not legitimate or sincere based on their initial posting seems to be a foolish and hasty assumption.

 




compmend
New User

From: Central FL
Messages: 3
 HELP URGENT! I have a HUGE Negative Balance what will happen??
Sent: 01-15-2008 17:56
  Reply



Firefly5, The reason Paypal usually sides with the buyer is because if Paypal refuses the refund during the resolution process, then the buyer can just appeal to their credit card company to issue a chargeback to Paypal. This leaves a seller in a vulnerable position, where you may lose your tangible or intagible property, shipping costs, etc. and the buyer gets a free ride at your expense. Most states have a copy of the statues regarding debts online and there are also National debt laws that you should research online. You can pay Equifax to freeze your credit report for a period of time, according to your state laws, just go to www.equifax.com and type freeze in the search box and look in the results for "Placing a security freeze", you may need to do this with the other two major credit reporting companies, I am not sure if this will work as I have never done this. This might allow you time to consult an attorney, paralegal, etc. to find out what your rights are.

 




DjMikeWatt
New User

From: New York
Messages: 15
 HELP URGENT! I have a HUGE Negative Balance what will happen??
Sent: 01-15-2008 03:14
  Reply



MikeSmith,

You're a ****ing retard. If you scouted this forum, you'd see that I just got done dealing with a $2,000 account freeze from PayPal. For absolutely no reason they froze my account (they said because my credit report wasn't good enough) after 5 and a half years of the account being open with no problems and no complaints. I don't work for Paypal, but I have worked in customer service for some very large corporations.

God, you're such a douche-bag.

If you really think calling that lady at home is going to help you get your money back, go right ahead. But it's not. Like I said, if you just want to make yourself feel better then go for it... but it's not going to help you. You think she's going to hang up the phone after you harass her and say to herself, "Wow, I now see the error of my ways - give that poor man his money back." It ain't gonna happen.

I got my money back by having my attorney contact their legal department and let them know what we were about to do (as far as legal action) if they didn't release the funds. Two days after they received the certified letter my money was available to me again.

(I still can't believe how ****ing retarded you are "MikeSmith").

Just because I know how to get results doesn't mean I work for Paypal, you childish idiot.

There you go... do with it what you will. I'm done responding to you now.

 




firefly5
New User

From: N/A
Messages: 3
 HELP URGENT! I have a HUGE Negative Balance what will happen??
Sent: 01-14-2008 20:10
  Reply



DjMikeWatt,



It's not that I have dozens of claims against me. The reason the negative balance is so high is because the cost of the item was so high. It was a few electronic gift cards that I sold and obviously now the balances are zero and i cannot "resend" the gift cards and i cannot get my money back from the gift cards.

 




MikeSmith
Registered User

From: N/A
Messages: 11
 HELP URGENT! I have a HUGE Negative Balance what will happen??
Sent: 01-14-2008 15:06
  Reply



Every garbage Company alike of Enron has a mule-punk (like one bellow) whose job is to scout forums established against the employer and pretend to be the voice of reason. But let me ask you a question DJMikeWatt, if PayPal’s agents are feel free to call at any time and harass good people, why would the people who cannot reach fair resolution because the resolution is unreachable, not call executives to request assistance, in a nice way?

You are free to check “Good PayPal Employee” manual for proper response. And, since you are being good employee, don’t forget to enter to win a form which can get you a free PayPal Certified Thanksgiving Turkey and $100.00 Christmas Bonus in holiday season 2008!

 




DjMikeWatt
New User

From: New York
Messages: 15
 HELP URGENT! I have a HUGE Negative Balance what will happen??
Sent: 01-14-2008 14:45
  Reply



MikeSmith,

Yes. Call her at home - that's a GREAT way to get this resolved.

Look, calling and bugging this lady at home may make you feel better as a way to let out some of your anger, but it's only going to hurt your cause... don't be stupid.

 




DjMikeWatt
New User

From: New York
Messages: 15
 HELP URGENT! I have a HUGE Negative Balance what will happen??
Sent: 01-14-2008 01:47
  Reply



firefly5,

Pardon me for saying so, but at first glance it really does sound like you aren't really all that legit.

Why do I say that?

If you have enough complaints that you have $6,000 negative, well, that's a lot. Since your item is electronic, if your customers claimed they didn't receive it, you'd simply have to resend it to them - which wouldn't cost you anything (the item is intangible). If, on the other hand, your buyers are claiming that you misrepresented the item in some way, then I would have to ask you why so many of your buyers are making this claim. It would seem that you likely DID misrepresent your item somehow.

Again, pardon me for going out on a limb, especially on this site of all places, but on the surface, it would appear that you are probably a less than completely honest seller, and thereby a huge part of the reason that the rest of us have problems with PayPal... because they're hyperactive in their approach to deterring fraud.

Face it, if you sent people what you told them you were sending them, you wouldn't have $6,000 in charge backs... one or two, maybe... but not as many as you have.

But, then again, what do I know?

 




firefly5
New User

From: N/A
Messages: 3
 HELP URGENT! I have a HUGE Negative Balance what will happen??
Sent: 01-14-2008 00:57
  Reply



so, like many others out there i have a negative account balance due to buyers filing claims/chargebacks. What really worries me is that because the items i was selling were electronic and for large amounts of money, my negative account balance is huge - probably around negative $6000. Even though paypal's user agreement says intangible goods are not cover by either the buyer or seller protection policy, paypal still found in favor the buyer. And of course I couldn't provide a shipping number because everything was electronic.

Anyway, IC systems is already after me, calling me constantly. With a negative account this large will paypal really take legal action??? I'm planning to mail a letter to IC systems telling them to stop contacting me but that won't make the issue disappear. I'm very worried that paypal will take me to court and that this might end up on my credit report because the balance is so high - but i simply can't pay back so much money.

Has anyone ever had paypal take legal action against them??? Has anyone had a negative balance end up on their credit report (i read somewhere that paypal does not have the right to report negative balances to credit bureaus though).

pleease help!!

 






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