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Thread: How eBay is circumventing Reserve Bank of Australia legislation!
sdalcorn
New User

From: Sydney, Australia
Messages: 1
 How eBay is circumventing Reserve Bank of Australia legislation!
Sent: 03-19-2008 02:36
  Reply



dylan_young,

Dylan - Aluminium Foil is also known as Tinfoil in Australia. I am Australian, and both my parents and Grandparents call it Tinfoil.

Any update on this RBA issue?

Cheers,

Sean

 




dylan_young
New User

From: Sydney, Australia
Messages: 6
 How eBay is circumventing Reserve Bank of Australia legislation!
Sent: 06-09-2006 21:43
  Reply



FU_PayPal,

Thanks for that FU_PayPal. I guess it is the same as what we have, aluminium foil.

I don't know what is sadder: that I didn't get the joke, or that he spends his time trolling an anti-PayPal forum in order to insult people. I suspect the latter.

Dylan

 




FU_PayPal
Big BOSS

From: N/A
Messages: 757
 How eBay is circumventing Reserve Bank of Australia legislation!
Sent: 06-09-2006 20:36
  Reply



Quote:
cheaperkmives,

Sorry, I'm from Australia - what's tinfoil?

Dylan

That was an insult toward you. Tinfoil is a sheet of paper made with tin and is used to wrap food in for cooking and keep it fresh. You should ignore cheaperkmives (not to be confused with cheaperknives), he is a Troll that attempts to copy knowlegable and respected user names here on this forum to cause confusion and doubt.

 




dylan_young
New User

From: Sydney, Australia
Messages: 6
 How eBay is circumventing Reserve Bank of Australia legislation!
Sent: 06-06-2006 19:09
  Reply



cheaperkmives,

Sorry, I'm from Australia - what's tinfoil?

Dylan

 




dylan_young
New User

From: Sydney, Australia
Messages: 6
 How eBay is circumventing Reserve Bank of Australia legislation!
Sent: 06-06-2006 03:01
  Reply



dylan_young,

I have received back an email from the Reserve Bank of Australia today. They are going to be meeting with eBay Australia regarding the matter and will be informing me of the outcome. I will post more as I am updated by the RBA. God I love strong government regulation some times!

Dylan

 




dylan_young
New User

From: Sydney, Australia
Messages: 6
 How eBay is circumventing Reserve Bank of Australia legislation!
Sent: 05-26-2006 02:30
  Reply



KevinG,
KevinG,

Thankfully in Australia they are. That is one good thing about strong government regulation, even though eBay are not a financial institution the Reserve Bank of Australia can work with the Australian Securities and Investment Commission (another government department) in forcing companies (whether they are financial or not) to comply with trade practices acts and Corporations laws. The regulations and acts are in place to force fair prices and services on both the merchant and the consumer. The intentions of the laws are to allow more small merchants access to a wider market, and to ensure customers are aware before they commit to purchasing a product that they know their costs. Just because eBay are attempting to remove the level playing field that the Australian government has set up, doesn’t mean the Reserve Bank are powerless. They can pass it on and work with other government departments to ensure the laws are not bent.

I am not a lawyer on this, and am only going off my conversations with the legal section at the Reserve Bank of Australia, but I will certainly post the outcomes here.

 




KevinG
Big BOSS

From: UK
Messages: 1080
 How eBay is circumventing Reserve Bank of Australia legislation!
Sent: 05-26-2006 01:59
  Reply



Correct me if I'm wrong but eBay are not regulated by any of the financial institutions as they are simply an online auction website and nothing to do with the financial side.

Paypal will be regulated but of course, it's not Paypal who are pulling your auction.

It's quite common practice within other industries to charge extra for CC payments especially in the holiday trade where a CC payment can add 2% onto your bill.

You could always try for reduced P&P if you pay by non paypal means and see if that gets through.

 




dylan_young
New User

From: Sydney, Australia
Messages: 6
 How eBay is circumventing Reserve Bank of Australia legislation!
Sent: 05-25-2006 23:49
  Reply



FU_PayPal,

Cheers for that, mate. You have a good point, and that is what I may have to do in the short term.

However, as one of the legal representatives from the Reserve Bank pointed out to me on the phone, it is illegal for eBay Australia to stop an Australian merchant from charging extra fees to credit card users. Since eBay/Paypal are acting on behalf of the credit card companies Mastercard and Visa, eBay merchants are allowed under Australian law to pass on credit card fees to customers who use credit cards, provided that the merchant states this fee charge clearly in its advertisements. That is what I did, and that is why eBay is now being investigated by the Reserve Bank and the Australian Securities and Investments Commission. Bet they are spewing that they introduced that rule to the eBay User Agreement.

It just goes to show you how the drive to reap more money can lead to you ignoring local laws and regulations!

I'm so happy that my tax dollars go towards kicking the arse of greedy businesses!

If you have time, why not partake in the most patronising customer service system I have ever come across. Rather than provide me with a means of complaining to them about their illegal terms, eBay think that I have the intellegence of a 4 year old. Check this out: http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/tutorial/feecirctutorial/intro.html


Dylan

 




FU_PayPal
Big BOSS

From: N/A
Messages: 757
 How eBay is circumventing Reserve Bank of Australia legislation!
Sent: 05-25-2006 20:53
  Reply



dylan_young, I think you might be ok to word it the other way, that is you give a discount for not using PayPal. I am just speculationg because I don't use PayPal and it is not worth my time to look it up... expecially for Australia, but in the US if you have a merchant account, you can't charge extra for accepting Visa/MC/AMEX/Discover et. al. but you can give a dicount for other forms of Payment. So it is the same thing, it is just the way you word it. I think 3rd party payment services (like PayPal) and the merchant account provider can set their own rules and say you can't offer a discount, but I would never use one that did that.


You can't deny use of a credit card either, you can only deny to do business with someone if they insist on using a credit card. If you tell someone you will do business with them with another form of payment, that is called "card suppression".

 




dylan_young
New User

From: Sydney, Australia
Messages: 6
 How eBay is circumventing Reserve Bank of Australia legislation!
Sent: 05-25-2006 20:38
  Reply



Hey all,

The following is an email I have submitted to the Reserve Bank of Australia regarding eBay's policies which I feel are in breach of Australian banking legislation. The Reserve Bank of Australia are the government regulators of the Australian financial sector. I contacted the Reserve Bank by phone and after a lengthy discussion with one of their departments, was asked to submit via email my complaint so they could investigate it further.

The email is as follows:

Dear RBA info,

Regarding my phone call this morning (26th April 2006), eBay and Paypal merchant fees.

I have attempted to sell an item on eBay Australia's website and have had the listing removed by eBay Australia. In their email the reason they gave was:


"We appreciate that you chose eBay to list the following auction-style listing(s):

8288080201 - Xbox Live Kit - 12 Month Subscription Headset - New


However, your listing was in violation of eBay's Circumvention of eBay Fees policy and has been removed from eBay. We have credited all associated fees to your account and notified eBay users associated with the transaction that it has been cancelled.

We would like to take this opportunity to let you know what part of your listing is not permitted.

Your listing(s) contains the following information:

*Paypal payments will incur a 5 fee on top of final bid price and postage.

Users may not use systems or techniques to circumvent, or avoid, eBay fees. Listings or content that circumvent (avoid) fees may provide a poor buying experience and create an unlevel playing field by penalizing sellers who pay all of their eBay fees. Further, these listings and content undermine the trust of eBay's marketplace.

Payment surcharges are a form of fee circumvention. Sellers may not charge buyers an additional fee for their use of ordinary forms of payment, including acceptance of checks, money orders, electronic transfers or credit cards. Such costs should be built into the price of the item."

It seems that they will not let me pass on a 'fee-for-service' to customers who choose to pay using their credit cards through Paypal Australia. I do not feel that customers who wish to pay via cash, bank cheque or direct deposit to my financial institute should have to supplement the credit card fees that Paypal charge me through higher prices of my goods. I do not feel that I should have to bear the cost myself, as I am already paying to list the auction. Instead, I am merely passing on a 5% charge to customers who wish to use their credit card through Paypal.

Please note that I clearly state in my auction listing, prior to purchase, that Paypal payers will receive an extra fee; I do not hide this or inform them after they have committed to purchase the goods. I am as honest as I can be with potential customers and full fees.

I regard Paypal Australia services as credit card services for the following reasons:
• You can only accept credit card payments through Paypal Australia if you have what Paypal term a "Premier/Business Account". This is covered in section 7.b of their Product Disclosure Statement.
• All payments accepted through a "Premier/Business Account" incur a 1.1% + $.30 AUD to 2.4% + $.30 AUD # ^ fee. This is covered in section 13 of their Product Disclosure Statement.
• The only reason I use Paypal Australia as a merchant is to receive credit card payments. I offer other payment methods of cash, bank cheque or direct deposit into my NAB account.
A link to PayPal Australia's Product Disclosure Statement can be found here: https://www.paypal.com/au/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/ua/PolicyPDS-outside

I do regard myself as a merchant in this case, as does eBay through their user agreement (http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/policies/user-agreement.html). In section 3.1 they state that they are not auctioneers but merely a venue by which sellers/merchants (in this case, me) can sell goods to buyers/customers. Therefore, they are not allowing me, under the Reserve Bank of Australia's lifting of merchant fees in January 2003 (http://www.rba.gov.au/PaymentsSystem/Reforms/CCSchemes/std_on_merchant_pricing_2002.html), to pass on the credit card fee to the credit card holder.

Since eBay owns Paypal, I believe they are circumventing the Reserve Bank of Australia's January 2003 Standard of Merchant Pricing (which removed the restriction preventing merchants from recovering from cardholders the costs of accepting credit cards), by acting as a pseudo credit card company.

I look forward to hearing your opinion with regards to this matter.

Sincerely


Dylan Young

_________________________________

I will keep you all posted as to any further development on this.

 






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